Is it possible to sue Anet - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Parson Brown · Apr 29, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Well, the claim would obviously be the money/times wasted on the game...

Don't think I'm planning on taking legal actions, I'm merely wondering IF it achieveable. The day I'm going to waste money on sueing Anet is the the day they can put me in my grave.

It's more a "IF" situation...

Assuming it is possible to sue, I doubt you could sue for more than the cost of the account. If you could put a value on the time "wasted" playing a game, my PS2 would owe me millions!

REDdelver · Apr 29, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Ok, but is this a legal clause? Is it legal for a company to put a clause in a contract of there that states you CAN'T sue them, even if THEY themselves break that very EULA?

There is still buyer protection supported by the government. The fact remains there are ONLY so many groups or individuals that have an inherent "CANT BE SUED" clause. I believe the President of the United States cant be sued, and i remember of hearing of other government agencies that cant be sued. YOU AS A BUYER ARE always protected in some sort of way. Even if a company slips in "you cant sue me" kind of clause, there are certain civil laws that protect you.

You have to prove that you were wronged in the eyes of the laws in order to considering doing something like this.

Like I said earlier, you must first take this issue of being banned by ANET before you even consider legal action.

JASON626 · Apr 29, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

maybe you can rally all the banned people of guild wars or ncsoft games

and go for what is called, a class action lawsuit?

Lycan Nibbler · Apr 29, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Taking them to small claims court (or the equivalent in your country) is the way to go. I am currently preparing a case against them for the banning of my accounts for the "use of 3rd party program or bot programs" when I have not used them and the "evidence" they based their decision on is the length of time I played during a particular period (the farm was h/h farming amatz basin - basically entering, flagging the heros to one side and then waiting for 10-12 minutes until the timer ran out, rinse and repeat).
I am suing for the cost of the programs and for the time required to re obtain items lost of those accounts + costs.
The requirements are much easier on a "normal person" in small claims.

citizensmith1001 · Apr 29, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Well firstly in all the time you have played guild wars have you done anything whatsoever , no matter how small that infringes on the EULA? if so they have you by the balls on this part of the agreement:

14. TERMINATION
(a) NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game(s) as described in the Rules of Conduct.

Should NC Interactive decide to suspend or terminate this Agreement with a User under any circumstances, the User will lose access to your Account.

(b) You agree that if the Service or your Account is suspended, terminated or cancelled for any reason or length of time, you are not entitled to any reimbursement or refund of any fees or unused access time.

And as far as using the laws of Belgum to sue a-net they also have covered that ,i beleve this part of the agreement that you agreed to when you joined the game covers that kind of thing:

15. GENERAL PROVISIONS
This Agreement is governed by and shall be construed and enforced under the laws of The State of Texas, without applying any conflicts of law principles which would require application of the law of any other jurisdiction. NC Interactive and you each hereby irrevocably consent to the jurisdiction of the courts of the State of Texas for all purposes in connection with any action or proceeding which arises out of or relates to this Agreement and agree that any action or proceeding instituted under this Agreement shall be brought only in the state courts of Travis County, State of Texas. If any provision of this Agreement is held to be invalid or unenforceable, such provision shall be struck and the remaining provisions shall be enforced. The UN Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly disclaimed. You agree to comply fully with all relevant export laws and regulations of the United States ("Export Laws") to assure that neither the Software nor the Service is exported, directly or indirectly, in violation of Export Laws; or is intended to be used for any purposes prohibited by the Export Laws. Our failure to act with respect to a breach by you or others does not waive our right to act with respect to subsequent or similar breaches. Except as otherwise permitted herein, you may not assign or transfer this Agreement or your rights hereunder, and any attempt to the contrary is void. This Agreement sets forth the entire understanding and agreement between us and you with respect to the subject matter hereof. Notwithstanding anything else in this Agreement, no default, delay or failure to perform on the part of NC Interactive shall be considered a breach of this Agreement if such default, delay or failure to perform is shown to be due to causes beyond the reasonable control of NC Interactive. All notices given by you or required under this Agreement shall be faxed to (512) 498 - 4099. Attn.: Customer Support

In other words i beleve this means you agreed that any legal disputes would be settled using the laws of Texas.Large companys like this cover their asses legaly using extremely high paid lawyers and the contracts they use tend to be water tight .However if you wanna try sewing them go for it, it'll be something to LOL at .

REDdelver · Apr 29, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASON626

maybe you can rally all the banned people of guild wars or ncsoft games

and go for what is called, a class action lawsuit?

I presume you are just being facetious. But this would not fall under a class action lawsuit. You couldnt just round up all the banned people and start suing. Class action lawsuits involve the same thing being done to a large group of people. Be it X number of people have been banned, those same X number of people had to have been banned for the same "illegal" reason.

Or in other words, if a company wrongfully pollutes a drink water reserve and 1000 people suffer the same damages then they have the right to file a class action lawsuit.

gremlin · Apr 29, 2009, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Your only chance would be if anything in the eula goes against European law, at which point you could report the company to whatever official body monitors such things.
In time the company would be forced to alter their rules to fit in with the statutes, then you could if you wished attempt to gain some form of redress for any harm or loss caused by their previous rules.

You are however correct in saying that just because a company states something in their documentation you are forced to accept it.

After buying the game you should have read that and decided not to accept their rules and immediately claim a refund for the cost of the game.
Once you sign up you enter willingly into an agreement fully knowing the rules.

Steph Woodland · Apr 29, 2009, 06:41 PM // 18:41

this may have been stated above

this is a civil matter and even if you win the sue who is going to enforce Anet to pay you? why would they? what is your push?

(no push, no cash)

Kumu Honua · Apr 29, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

IANAL.

To sue, you must have damages. The only thing you could consider damages in your case is the $50 equivalent you paid for the game and any character slot/additional costs. You most certainly do not suffer mental anguish, or any other hardships that you could sue for.

The question is: Are you willing to risk hundreds of dollars to get your $50 back assuming you win your case (You won't)?

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

Taking them to small claims court (or the equivalent in your country) is the way to go. I am currently preparing a case against them for the banning of my accounts for the "use of 3rd party program or bot programs" when I have not used them and the "evidence" they based their decision on is the length of time I played during a particular period (the farm was h/h farming amatz basin - basically entering, flagging the heros to one side and then waiting for 10-12 minutes until the timer ran out, rinse and repeat).
I am suing for the cost of the programs and for the time required to re obtain items lost of those accounts + costs.
The requirements are much easier on a "normal person" in small claims.

Let us know how this goes. BTW: You can't sue for time because you didn't lose any money on the time. If you are in a car accident and you lose time at work, you can sue for that time because it has a value.

Haxor · Apr 29, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by citizensmith1001

Well firstly in all the time you have played guild wars have you done anything whatsoever , no matter how small that infringes on the EULA? if so they have you by the balls on this part of the agreement:

14. TERMINATION
(a) NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game(s) as described in the Rules of Conduct.

Should NC Interactive decide to suspend or terminate this Agreement with a User under any circumstances, the User will lose access to your Account.

(b) You agree that if the Service or your Account is suspended, terminated or cancelled for any reason or length of time, you are not entitled to any reimbursement or refund of any fees or unused access time.

And as far as using the laws of Belgum to sue a-net they also have covered that ,i beleve this part of the agreement that you agreed to when you joined the game covers that kind of thing:

15. GENERAL PROVISIONS
This Agreement is governed by and shall be construed and enforced under the laws of The State of Texas, without applying any conflicts of law principles which would require application of the law of any other jurisdiction. NC Interactive and you each hereby irrevocably consent to the jurisdiction of the courts of the State of Texas for all purposes in connection with any action or proceeding which arises out of or relates to this Agreement and agree that any action or proceeding instituted under this Agreement shall be brought only in the state courts of Travis County, State of Texas. If any provision of this Agreement is held to be invalid or unenforceable, such provision shall be struck and the remaining provisions shall be enforced. The UN Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly disclaimed. You agree to comply fully with all relevant export laws and regulations of the United States ("Export Laws") to assure that neither the Software nor the Service is exported, directly or indirectly, in violation of Export Laws; or is intended to be used for any purposes prohibited by the Export Laws. Our failure to act with respect to a breach by you or others does not waive our right to act with respect to subsequent or similar breaches. Except as otherwise permitted herein, you may not assign or transfer this Agreement or your rights hereunder, and any attempt to the contrary is void. This Agreement sets forth the entire understanding and agreement between us and you with respect to the subject matter hereof. Notwithstanding anything else in this Agreement, no default, delay or failure to perform on the part of NC Interactive shall be considered a breach of this Agreement if such default, delay or failure to perform is shown to be due to causes beyond the reasonable control of NC Interactive. All notices given by you or required under this Agreement shall be faxed to (512) 498 - 4099. Attn.: Customer Support

That, plus this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EULA

12. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF NC INTERACTIVE'S (OR ANY OF ITS SHAREHOLDERS, PARTNERS, AFFILIATES, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, SUBSIDIARIES, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, SUPPLIERS, LICENSEES OR DISTRIBUTORS) LIABILITY TO YOU UNDER THIS AGREEMENT SHALL NOT EXCEED AN AMOUNT EQUAL TO THE PURCHASE PRICE OF THE GAME(S), CAMPAIGNS OR ADDITIONAL FEATURE, AS APPLICABLE, PAID BY YOU TO NC INTERACTIVE IN THE PRECEEDING SIX (6) MONTHS. IN NO EVENT SHALL NC INTERACTIVE OR ANY OF ITS CONTENT PROVIDERS, SHAREHOLDERS, PARTNERS, AFFILIATES, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS OR SUPPLIERS, BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS), REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LIABILITY (INCLUDING CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, OR STRICT LIABILITY) ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SERVICE, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT OR THIS AGREEMENT WHICH MAY BE INCURRED BY YOU, WHETHER OR NOT NC INTERACTIVE (OR ANY OF SUCH OTHER RELEASED PARTIES) MAY HAVE BEEN ADVISED THAT ANY SUCH DAMAGES MIGHT OR COULD OCCUR. Some states do not allow the foregoing limitations of liability, so they may not apply to you and in such a case you agree that NC Interactive's (or any such other released parties) liability to you shall be limited to the maximum extent permitted by law. You agree that NC Interactive cannot be held responsible or liable for anything that occurs or results from accessing or subscribing to the Service.

Now the question arises, is it really worth spending hundreds (thousands) of dollars/euros/whatevers for 6 months worth of fees (which is maybe a namechange, makeover and a few character slots), or however little they can make it within the extent of the law?

I don't think so.

REDdelver · Apr 29, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steph Woodland

this may have been stated above

this is a civil matter and even if you win the sue who is going to enforce Anet to pay you? why would they? what is your push?

(no push, no cash)

Ummm the court/courts that awarded him in the first place.....if he'd win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Your only chance would be if anything in the eula goes against European law, at which point you could report the company to whatever official body monitors such things.
In time the company would be forced to alter their rules to fit in with the statutes, then you could if you wished attempt to gain some form of redress for any harm or loss caused by their previous rules.

As found in a previous post...there is no only chance with regards to "european law" or Belgiums civil law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by citizensmith1001

15. GENERAL PROVISIONS
This Agreement is governed by and shall be construed and enforced under the laws of The State of Texas, without applying any conflicts of law principles which would require application of the law of any other jurisdiction. NC Interactive and you each hereby irrevocably consent to the jurisdiction of the courts of the State of Texas for all purposes in connection with any action or proceeding which arises out of or relates to this Agreement and agree that any action or proceeding instituted under this Agreement shall be brought only in the state courts of Travis County, State of Texas. If any provision of this Agreement is held to be invalid or unenforceable, such provision shall be struck and the remaining provisions shall be enforced. The UN Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly disclaimed. You agree to comply fully with all relevant export laws and regulations of the United States ("Export Laws") to assure that neither the Software nor the Service is exported, directly or indirectly, in violation of Export Laws; or is intended to be used for any purposes prohibited by the Export Laws. Our failure to act with respect to a breach by you or others does not waive our right to act with respect to subsequent or similar breaches. Except as otherwise permitted herein, you may not assign or transfer this Agreement or your rights hereunder, and any attempt to the contrary is void. This Agreement sets forth the entire understanding and agreement between us and you with respect to the subject matter hereof. Notwithstanding anything else in this Agreement, no default, delay or failure to perform on the part of NC Interactive shall be considered a breach of this Agreement if such default, delay or failure to perform is shown to be due to causes beyond the reasonable control of NC Interactive. All notices given by you or required under this Agreement shall be faxed to (512) 498 - 4099. Attn.: Customer Support

In other words i beleve this means you agreed that any legal disputes would be settled using the laws of Texas.Large companys like this cover their asses legaly using extremely high paid lawyers and the contracts they use tend to be water tight .However if you wanna try sewing them go for it, it'll be something to LOL at .

Edit. Weird to say. I truly enjoyed my Business Law class at Penn State...our professor was by far the most interesting professor i had. That stinker picked me out off 250+ students as the first person called on...on the first day of class.

Painbringer · Apr 29, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Maybe Judge Judy will hear your case

On a serious note it is only $50.00 or so bucks in American. I am sure your local laws take into account a certain dollar amount before they are deemed court worthy. We have small claims court in the states which hears the smaller monetary amounts. Helps to keep the petty cases out of the mainstream system. You also have a jurisdiction / international deal going on which makes it harder and a lot more $ to process.

Now if it turns into a class action suit then it gets multiplied in value and well most defiantly be heard in court.

Killed u man · Apr 29, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

For those who wonder:

I didn't do anything against the rules, it actually was a VERY debated issue, but GAILE GRAY herself said it was NOT a bannable offence. Also, in the EULA itself, it doesn't say anything directly about this thing.

I can be more specific, but People will just go off-topic on THAT issue than, rather than the fact wether or not Anet can ban someone for doing something, they indirectly said (Gaile said it on a forum) it was not a bann-able offence.

I've already sent a support ticket yesterday. Still waiting...

MagmaRed · Apr 29, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Waste of your time to sue. Just like it was a waste of my time to read this topic. You did something 'wrong', and whether it is a bannable offense or not is a different question. Gaile has been wrong before, and I'm not sure she ever had the 'authority' to say what was and wasn't bannable.

Either tell us what you did, what you were banned for, or what Gaile said was not bannable, or ask a mod to close this topic. Try asking someone who knows about international law, as this isn't a case of Belgium or US law.

Massive Impulsa · Apr 29, 2009, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Forexample, one guy here got banned for Selling HA Fame services. As far as i know they dont say that this is against the EULA.

Also idk but if u do sue anet, im pretty sure they are gonna go throu EVERY CHAT LOGS you've had, and i just said anything offensive ("moron, your stupid, i hate you" etc) theire probably gonna perma ban you for that. Altough i have no idea^^

Toxic OnyX · Apr 29, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

The problem that you have is that the EULA is vague in the way it is written and that is for a reason.

They can ban you for an offence by implication or actuality, just because each and every example of any potential offense is not mention it can be refered to as implied.

To be honest the EULA is ludicrous in that it gives 100% protection to a-net/ncsoft and zero protection to the consumer, there is absolutely no right of recourse under the EULA that exists for this game.

If they say you were botting, they will never provide any information and do not have to provide any information, merely the fact that they say you were means they can ban you and there i not 1 single thing you can do about it other than try and harass support to actually look into it, the chances of haing a ban lifted are extremely remote indeed and if they did lift it they will not admit any fault as they do not have to.

Kind of scary the fact that we have no rights or protection in what is essentially a contract by implicatin, if this was a business contract it would not be accepted in any european country as it is illegal to have a one-sided contract in Europe, but because it is virtual entertainment they can do as they wish.

They only thing you own is the product you have bought (discs and case) everything else belongs to ncsoft/anet and remains their property at all times, therefore anything they want to do with that property is perfectly legal.

Miss Gratia · Apr 29, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I think you can, but you wont be very successfull. I believe that as soon as you download the game and agree to the EULA, then their rules apply to your actions in game whatever those rules might be and they apply them to however they see fit.

Commander Kanen · Apr 29, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Hey i thought of suing Ncsoft when i got banned but meh. altho. when they change the EULA does the rules change for you? many times its changed and you had to reaccept it.
I think if its a minor offence like Taxi-ing or swearing a prem ban should be like a year tops. botting or duping should be perm.

Anet says things but means others. no 3rd party programms but allows textmod which can aid you to get title's ... and so on

w00t! · Apr 29, 2009, 09:14 PM // 21:14

First, EULA's typically aren't worth the virtual ink they're written on. They are simply a protective measure that a company takes in order to reduce the number of potential lawsuits. In the US the UCC typically protects consumers from legal mumbo-jumbo that the "common man" wouldn't be able to understand. This includes many, though not all, EULA's. A typical defense that works is "I couldn't understand it. I tried, but I just can't make sense out of it."

Small claims court would be the way to go. The probability of you winning is very small (unless the judge plays MMORPG's), and the potential gain on your part is also very small. Most likely you were banned for a reason that a considerable number of people on this board would agree with, and the ban would therefore pass the "reasonable man" test. Generally not worth the trouble.

Better to spend your time on a new account or switching to a different MMORPG. Or better yet, quit gaming and go out and enjoy life. I hear cycling is real popular in Belgium. Some guy named Merckx?

REDdelver · Apr 29, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Waste of your time to sue. Just like it was a waste of my time to read this topic. You did something 'wrong', and whether it is a bannable offense or not is a different question. Gaile has been wrong before, and I'm not sure she ever had the 'authority' to say what was and wasn't bannable.

Either tell us what you did, what you were banned for, or what Gaile said was not bannable, or ask a mod to close this topic. Try asking someone who knows about international law, as this isn't a case of Belgium or US law.

Once again this has already been addressed in above posts.....In the EULA....and civil action will be overseen by the STATE OF TEXAS.

The reason why companies do this is becuase all states civilly have different laws.....as well as other countries...other states of countries...other providences....down to even at the county level.

IT WOULD ABSOLUTELY BE IMPOSSIBLE TO WRITE UP AN EULA that would cover all counties of all states of all countries of the world. It would be a NIGHTMARE. There has to be a precedence in order to be fair for everyone. If there wasnt then people 10 miles down the road from you in a different town/county/state could possible sue for something you couldn't. I realize that happens in other situations as we speak, but local governments are set up for local civil cases. In a situation like this where the game essentially touches most of the corners of the world...they choose a one state's laws to abide by.

For those who think this thread should be closed....wow. Seriously this was one of the best more well responded overall threads I've seen on Guru. Its a legit thought/situation with some great information with little to almost no ranting.

Honestly if you want to say anything bad about this thread....to me the person who started this thread should have waited until he received info back from support and had his situation resolved. None the less...this is great discussion.

EDIT: i should have known---just when i make a case(no pun intended) about a good thread....someone chimes in with a post following completely unrelated....what lives under a bridge again?

Apr 29, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47	#24
Lycan Nibbler Forge Runner Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: AZ	Taking them to small claims court (or the equivalent in your country) is the way to go. I am currently preparing a case against them for the banning of my accounts for the "use of 3rd party program or bot programs" when I have not used them and the "evidence" they based their decision on is the length of time I played during a particular period (the farm was h/h farming amatz basin - basically entering, flagging the heros to one side and then waiting for 10-12 minutes until the timer ran out, rinse and repeat). I am suing for the cost of the programs and for the time required to re obtain items lost of those accounts + costs. The requirements are much easier on a "normal person" in small claims. Last edited by Lycan Nibbler; Apr 29, 2009 at 05:58 PM // 17:58..

Apr 29, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43	#23
JASON626 Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2006 Profession: Mo/	maybe you can rally all the banned people of guild wars or ncsoft games and go for what is called, a class action lawsuit?

Apr 29, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48	#25
citizensmith1001 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Behind You Guild: [RoaR] Profession: D/	Well firstly in all the time you have played guild wars have you done anything whatsoever , no matter how small that infringes on the EULA? if so they have you by the balls on this part of the agreement: 14. TERMINATION (a) NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game(s) as described in the Rules of Conduct. Should NC Interactive decide to suspend or terminate this Agreement with a User under any circumstances, the User will lose access to your Account. (b) You agree that if the Service or your Account is suspended, terminated or cancelled for any reason or length of time, you are not entitled to any reimbursement or refund of any fees or unused access time. And as far as using the laws of Belgum to sue a-net they also have covered that ,i beleve this part of the agreement that you agreed to when you joined the game covers that kind of thing: 15. GENERAL PROVISIONS This Agreement is governed by and shall be construed and enforced under the laws of The State of Texas, without applying any conflicts of law principles which would require application of the law of any other jurisdiction. NC Interactive and you each hereby irrevocably consent to the jurisdiction of the courts of the State of Texas for all purposes in connection with any action or proceeding which arises out of or relates to this Agreement and agree that any action or proceeding instituted under this Agreement shall be brought only in the state courts of Travis County, State of Texas. If any provision of this Agreement is held to be invalid or unenforceable, such provision shall be struck and the remaining provisions shall be enforced. The UN Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly disclaimed. You agree to comply fully with all relevant export laws and regulations of the United States ("Export Laws") to assure that neither the Software nor the Service is exported, directly or indirectly, in violation of Export Laws; or is intended to be used for any purposes prohibited by the Export Laws. Our failure to act with respect to a breach by you or others does not waive our right to act with respect to subsequent or similar breaches. Except as otherwise permitted herein, you may not assign or transfer this Agreement or your rights hereunder, and any attempt to the contrary is void. This Agreement sets forth the entire understanding and agreement between us and you with respect to the subject matter hereof. Notwithstanding anything else in this Agreement, no default, delay or failure to perform on the part of NC Interactive shall be considered a breach of this Agreement if such default, delay or failure to perform is shown to be due to causes beyond the reasonable control of NC Interactive. All notices given by you or required under this Agreement shall be faxed to (512) 498 - 4099. Attn.: Customer Support In other words i beleve this means you agreed that any legal disputes would be settled using the laws of Texas.Large companys like this cover their asses legaly using extremely high paid lawyers and the contracts they use tend to be water tight .However if you wanna try sewing them go for it, it'll be something to LOL at .

Apr 29, 2009, 06:17 PM // 18:17	#27
gremlin Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: GWAR Profession: Me/Mo	Your only chance would be if anything in the eula goes against European law, at which point you could report the company to whatever official body monitors such things. In time the company would be forced to alter their rules to fit in with the statutes, then you could if you wished attempt to gain some form of redress for any harm or loss caused by their previous rules. You are however correct in saying that just because a company states something in their documentation you are forced to accept it. After buying the game you should have read that and decided not to accept their rules and immediately claim a refund for the cost of the game. Once you sign up you enter willingly into an agreement fully knowing the rules.

Apr 29, 2009, 06:41 PM // 18:41	#28
Steph Woodland Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: ViP Profession: Mo/	this may have been stated above this is a civil matter and even if you win the sue who is going to enforce Anet to pay you? why would they? what is your push? (no push, no cash)

Apr 29, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44	#32
Painbringer Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Minnesota Guild: Black Widows of Death Profession: W/Mo	Maybe Judge Judy will hear your case On a serious note it is only $50.00 or so bucks in American. I am sure your local laws take into account a certain dollar amount before they are deemed court worthy. We have small claims court in the states which hears the smaller monetary amounts. Helps to keep the petty cases out of the mainstream system. You also have a jurisdiction / international deal going on which makes it harder and a lot more $ to process. Now if it turns into a class action suit then it gets multiplied in value and well most defiantly be heard in court.

Apr 29, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47	#33
Killed u man Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2006	For those who wonder: I didn't do anything against the rules, it actually was a VERY debated issue, but GAILE GRAY herself said it was NOT a bannable offence. Also, in the EULA itself, it doesn't say anything directly about this thing. I can be more specific, but People will just go off-topic on THAT issue than, rather than the fact wether or not Anet can ban someone for doing something, they indirectly said (Gaile said it on a forum) it was not a bann-able offence. I've already sent a support ticket yesterday. Still waiting...

Apr 29, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12	#34
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	Waste of your time to sue. Just like it was a waste of my time to read this topic. You did something 'wrong', and whether it is a bannable offense or not is a different question. Gaile has been wrong before, and I'm not sure she ever had the 'authority' to say what was and wasn't bannable. Either tell us what you did, what you were banned for, or what Gaile said was not bannable, or ask a mod to close this topic. Try asking someone who knows about international law, as this isn't a case of Belgium or US law.

Apr 29, 2009, 08:27 PM // 20:27	#35
Massive Impulsa Jungle Guide Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: In Viking land! (Norwaii) Guild: Beyond the Gates of Infinity [sKy] Profession: R/Mo	Forexample, one guy here got banned for Selling HA Fame services. As far as i know they dont say that this is against the EULA. Also idk but if u do sue anet, im pretty sure they are gonna go throu EVERY CHAT LOGS you've had, and i just said anything offensive ("moron, your stupid, i hate you" etc) theire probably gonna perma ban you for that. Altough i have no idea^^

Apr 29, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49	#36
Toxic OnyX Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Atreia	The problem that you have is that the EULA is vague in the way it is written and that is for a reason. They can ban you for an offence by implication or actuality, just because each and every example of any potential offense is not mention it can be refered to as implied. To be honest the EULA is ludicrous in that it gives 100% protection to a-net/ncsoft and zero protection to the consumer, there is absolutely no right of recourse under the EULA that exists for this game. If they say you were botting, they will never provide any information and do not have to provide any information, merely the fact that they say you were means they can ban you and there i not 1 single thing you can do about it other than try and harass support to actually look into it, the chances of haing a ban lifted are extremely remote indeed and if they did lift it they will not admit any fault as they do not have to. Kind of scary the fact that we have no rights or protection in what is essentially a contract by implicatin, if this was a business contract it would not be accepted in any european country as it is illegal to have a one-sided contract in Europe, but because it is virtual entertainment they can do as they wish. They only thing you own is the product you have bought (discs and case) everything else belongs to ncsoft/anet and remains their property at all times, therefore anything they want to do with that property is perfectly legal.

Apr 29, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58	#37
Miss Gratia Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2008 Profession: W/E	I think you can, but you wont be very successfull. I believe that as soon as you download the game and agree to the EULA, then their rules apply to your actions in game whatever those rules might be and they apply them to however they see fit.

Apr 29, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06	#38
Commander Kanen Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2008 Guild: [DVDF] Profession: P/	Hey i thought of suing Ncsoft when i got banned but meh. altho. when they change the EULA does the rules change for you? many times its changed and you had to reaccept it. I think if its a minor offence like Taxi-ing or swearing a prem ban should be like a year tops. botting or duping should be perm. Anet says things but means others. no 3rd party programms but allows textmod which can aid you to get title's ... and so on

Apr 29, 2009, 09:14 PM // 21:14	#39
w00t! Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sorrow's Furnace Hot Tub Guild: RoS Profession: Mo/Me	First, EULA's typically aren't worth the virtual ink they're written on. They are simply a protective measure that a company takes in order to reduce the number of potential lawsuits. In the US the UCC typically protects consumers from legal mumbo-jumbo that the "common man" wouldn't be able to understand. This includes many, though not all, EULA's. A typical defense that works is "I couldn't understand it. I tried, but I just can't make sense out of it." Small claims court would be the way to go. The probability of you winning is very small (unless the judge plays MMORPG's), and the potential gain on your part is also very small. Most likely you were banned for a reason that a considerable number of people on this board would agree with, and the ban would therefore pass the "reasonable man" test. Generally not worth the trouble. Better to spend your time on a new account or switching to a different MMORPG. Or better yet, quit gaming and go out and enjoy life. I hear cycling is real popular in Belgium. Some guy named Merckx?